The Babel Connection
The earliest Chinese Writing dated back to 2700 BC.
It is estimated that the Tower of Babel incident took place around 2700 BC.
A coincidence??? Definitely not!!!
In fact, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before there was Taoism or Confucianism in China, the Chinese worshipped the one true God - 上帝 (Shang Di) or LORD on High, the Supreme God. The similarities between Shang Di of the Chinese and Yahweh of the Jews is astounding. They are definitely the one, same God.
Let's find out more about who Shang Di of the Chinese people is -
According to Wikipedia -
In fact Taoism made people put great importance to the 5 elements of this world which is also the basis of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). When your parents tell you that you are too heaty or your body is too cooling - they are borrowing that train of thought from there. I forgot what they call this Taoist/TCM school of medical thought. I learned about it once and I struggled. I grew up listening to my mum talk about balancing the heaty (yang qi) and the cooling (ying qi) - and I came to see how this conflicts with our faith in God.
I still take Ginseng tea and Liang Teh (Herbal Tea) but I guess it is out of habit and because I like the refreshing taste. BUT I am beginning to learn to not subscribe to this school of thought now that I know its roots.
OK... Back to Qin Shi Huang...
To seal his status as a deity, the cruel Emperor massacred dissident scholars and burned many precious books in what was known as "Fen-Shu, Kang Ru". This devstating event meant that much about Shang Di was lost.
BTW This same emperor also had unnatural relationships with the men under him and was a strong supporter of the beginnings of medical science (as mentioned in previous paragraphs).
Note: I actually paused my blogging here to head out for a meeting this morning, and if you will read the comments section, my friend and I had a very in-depth and interesting discussion on medical science being a stumbling block and TCM and stuff after she read the above sharings. Iron sharpens Iron... Praise God for wonderful fellowships online. =D
Thankfully, not all the evidence of Shang Di was burned to a crisp. God's testimony can be seen in the Chinese language too. (There are religious texts about Shang Di - I will talk about them the next time I blog).
Shang Di of the Chinese went by 3 names - Shang Di, Di, and Tian.
Interestingly, a single root word "di" or "ti" has been used throughout the myriad languages of this world to refer to OR to indicate the name of God OR used as a common noun for deities or sacred concepts.
For example,
Deity (English, from latin)
Deus (Latin)
Dio (Italian)
Dieu (French)
Dios (Spanish)
Dia (Irish)
Duw (Welsh)
Doue (Breton)
Dievas (Lithuanian)
Dieus (Lettish)
Dyu (Sanskrit)
Theos (Greek)
It is thus very interesting that the Chinese names for God contained the universal morpheme for deity.
So what do the three Chinese names of God represent?
Shang Di 上帝 -
Literally means Sovereign God above all rulers, highly honoured, esteemed and first in order.
Interestingly, before the Chinese came up with the word 上 (shang) , the word 示( shi ) was used instead. It is formed of 3 lines written vertically to resemble 小 ( xiao - division). It means to reveal the truth of God! Could the 3 lines represent the fact that God is a triune God divided into the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? =)
Di 帝-
This word is formed of the elements above 上 (shang) and thorns 刺 (ignore the element on the right - I could not find the element on the right in my Chinese Word processor) !! Jesus was made to wear a crown of thorns!!
Pictorially, this word was a picture that showed a burnt offering with a stack of wood and a sacrifice - pictures of Jesus Christ no doubt!
Interestingly, the same mandarin word 帝 used to be written alternatively with a speech element next to it (谛 = 言 yan + 帝 di) - could this thus refer to The Word ( ie. The Word was made flesh) which refers to Christ?! Two symbols representing Christ again! WOW! Also, 谛 was used as a noun to refer to "a judge". The Word of God clearly says that Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead.
帝 was also written as 蒂 - here it refers to God the creator. The element above the word 帝 represents a budding flower. God began new life on this world. In the gospel of John, we see how "In the beginning was the Word..." - God SPOKE life into the World. He spoke Christ into the world. =)
Lastly, 帝 was also represented by 缔 which means "to form a friendship, to conclude a treaty". Could this refer to Yahweh our covenant friend?!?!?! Again this points to Christ and Christ alone!
I am researching and writing these thoughts on my blog as they come - and I cannot tell you how excited and amazed I am. Praise God for His revelations each day!
Tian 天-
This word means Heavens. Broken into its pictorial elements, it means the expanse above humans. Early pictograph showed a man with an enlarged head - this is representative of the God head. =)
I am just going to pause here to digest and marvel at God's testimony seen in formation of the pictorial language that is Mandarin.
I will write more when I can... =)
It is estimated that the Tower of Babel incident took place around 2700 BC.
A coincidence??? Definitely not!!!
In fact, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before there was Taoism or Confucianism in China, the Chinese worshipped the one true God - 上帝 (Shang Di) or LORD on High, the Supreme God. The similarities between Shang Di of the Chinese and Yahweh of the Jews is astounding. They are definitely the one, same God.
Let's find out more about who Shang Di of the Chinese people is -
According to Wikipedia -
Shangdi is first mentioned in Chinese Literature in the Five Classics, (五經, pinyin: Wujing) allegedly compiled by Confucius in the 6th century BC. The Wujing was a collection of five books that represented the pinnacle of Chinese culture at that time. The oldest parts of the Wujing were first written around 1000 BC, apparently relying on older texts. All of the five classics include references to Shangdi.Taoism, probably the most embraced religion by the Chinese in Singapore (but even then our Taoism is completely distorted compared to the original Taoist religion) , came about with Lao Tzu. Taoism took the focus of the people's faith in Shang Di and made the people trust in the things of this world. Qin Shi Huang (221-207 BC), whose ego was massive - later established himself as a deity, and began the Chinese pantheon of Gods, Goddesses, demonology, etc... and many Chinese still worship him today. You might have seen his statue in the Chinese temple. They call him Huang Di or Yellow Emperor. .
In fact Taoism made people put great importance to the 5 elements of this world which is also the basis of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). When your parents tell you that you are too heaty or your body is too cooling - they are borrowing that train of thought from there. I forgot what they call this Taoist/TCM school of medical thought. I learned about it once and I struggled. I grew up listening to my mum talk about balancing the heaty (yang qi) and the cooling (ying qi) - and I came to see how this conflicts with our faith in God.
I still take Ginseng tea and Liang Teh (Herbal Tea) but I guess it is out of habit and because I like the refreshing taste. BUT I am beginning to learn to not subscribe to this school of thought now that I know its roots.
OK... Back to Qin Shi Huang...
To seal his status as a deity, the cruel Emperor massacred dissident scholars and burned many precious books in what was known as "Fen-Shu, Kang Ru". This devstating event meant that much about Shang Di was lost.
BTW This same emperor also had unnatural relationships with the men under him and was a strong supporter of the beginnings of medical science (as mentioned in previous paragraphs).
Note: I actually paused my blogging here to head out for a meeting this morning, and if you will read the comments section, my friend and I had a very in-depth and interesting discussion on medical science being a stumbling block and TCM and stuff after she read the above sharings. Iron sharpens Iron... Praise God for wonderful fellowships online. =D
Thankfully, not all the evidence of Shang Di was burned to a crisp. God's testimony can be seen in the Chinese language too. (There are religious texts about Shang Di - I will talk about them the next time I blog).
Shang Di of the Chinese went by 3 names - Shang Di, Di, and Tian.
Interestingly, a single root word "di" or "ti" has been used throughout the myriad languages of this world to refer to OR to indicate the name of God OR used as a common noun for deities or sacred concepts.
For example,
Deity (English, from latin)
Deus (Latin)
Dio (Italian)
Dieu (French)
Dios (Spanish)
Dia (Irish)
Duw (Welsh)
Doue (Breton)
Dievas (Lithuanian)
Dieus (Lettish)
Dyu (Sanskrit)
Theos (Greek)
It is thus very interesting that the Chinese names for God contained the universal morpheme for deity.
So what do the three Chinese names of God represent?
Shang Di 上帝 -
Literally means Sovereign God above all rulers, highly honoured, esteemed and first in order.
Interestingly, before the Chinese came up with the word 上 (shang) , the word 示( shi ) was used instead. It is formed of 3 lines written vertically to resemble 小 ( xiao - division). It means to reveal the truth of God! Could the 3 lines represent the fact that God is a triune God divided into the persons of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit? =)
Di 帝-
This word is formed of the elements above 上 (shang) and thorns 刺 (ignore the element on the right - I could not find the element on the right in my Chinese Word processor) !! Jesus was made to wear a crown of thorns!!
Pictorially, this word was a picture that showed a burnt offering with a stack of wood and a sacrifice - pictures of Jesus Christ no doubt!
Interestingly, the same mandarin word 帝 used to be written alternatively with a speech element next to it (谛 = 言 yan + 帝 di) - could this thus refer to The Word ( ie. The Word was made flesh) which refers to Christ?! Two symbols representing Christ again! WOW! Also, 谛 was used as a noun to refer to "a judge". The Word of God clearly says that Jesus will come again to judge the living and the dead.
帝 was also written as 蒂 - here it refers to God the creator. The element above the word 帝 represents a budding flower. God began new life on this world. In the gospel of John, we see how "In the beginning was the Word..." - God SPOKE life into the World. He spoke Christ into the world. =)
Lastly, 帝 was also represented by 缔 which means "to form a friendship, to conclude a treaty". Could this refer to Yahweh our covenant friend?!?!?! Again this points to Christ and Christ alone!
I am researching and writing these thoughts on my blog as they come - and I cannot tell you how excited and amazed I am. Praise God for His revelations each day!
Tian 天-
This word means Heavens. Broken into its pictorial elements, it means the expanse above humans. Early pictograph showed a man with an enlarged head - this is representative of the God head. =)
I am just going to pause here to digest and marvel at God's testimony seen in formation of the pictorial language that is Mandarin.
I will write more when I can... =)
I did a Chinese module in Uni and what I learned at that time was that Taoism (as we know it) was adopted as a religion as a counter-force against Buddhist, at that time was deemed 'foreign'. Prior to this period, Chinese did not really have a God or gods. Taoism is based on Lao Tzi's teachings but along the way, people started adding fantasy to it, many of which were also influenced by Indian religion - monkey God vs one of the Hindu gods, etc. Many are plain fantasies based on fictions. (-_-)
ReplyDeleteAs for TCM and its origin, frankly, these historical records are not exactly accurate. We speculate based on what we know. E.g. some people who think that the Sumerian culture is older than the Jewish culture will say that the Jewish story of Noah's flood was taken from the Sumerian legend of a universal flood. But we know it is the other way round. : ) So there is always this chicken and egg issue that will affect how you interpret things.
As for TCM, I personally feel that a lot of "Christian" authors discuss it based on a very ethnocentric point of view, ie. everything unchristian (as they understand it) must be demonic.
First of all, the Bible says that all good things come from God. Imagine 6000 years without medical science as we know it, is it God's grace or not that He gave the Chinese people medical knowledge in the form of TCM? Could we not see it as His grace in preserving the health of this group of people for 6000 years, before western medicine came?
Someone once argued with me that TCM is from the devil to deceive the people. Frankly, in my opinion, if I were the devil, if I can kill them all off in one stroke of a plague, why would I want to go into such trouble as to invent something to heal them?
So I tend to believe that when Noah came out of the Ark, he and his descendents were given knowledge in all sorts of things, eg. metal works, wood works, stone work, herbology, etc. At the Tower of Babel, cos of the confusion, groups of people got dispersed, carrying with them their individual wealth of knowledge. The people that went on to become the Chinese probably took with them herbology knowledge which transformed into TCM.
The Devil cannot create and he does not have any good intention. But he can pervert, which is what I believe happened to TCM. So personally, I still think there are good things in TCM. Not lock stock and barrel, but we probably cannot write it off completely like throwing the baby out with the bath water. Those of us who grew up with it have to admit that there is some truth in the heaty-ness, coolnes concept, for instance.
Some of the TCM concepts are foreign to us because we are educated based on a completely different system. Western doctors pooh-pooh at such things as acupoints. Yet, they cannot completely disprove it. I believe the area of how our body works, healing and health is bigger than the western definition of it, or the TCM or ayuveda definition of it. Nobody can claim that he completely understands how the body works. But foreign concept does not mean that they must be demonic. (But also does not mean completely acceptable.)
I once watched a documentary on the Chinese concept of how the body works. Mainly the concept of Qi and Xue (blood). Amazingly, it is very close to how we understand about the spirit and the blood. The bible says life is in the blood. TCM too. I am afraid I cannot adequately explain these because I cannot remember most of it. All I remember is that when I watched that documentary, I was so awed by how even TCM shows that the Bible is truth. Of course, the actual concept has been perverted so it does not really reflect Bible truths. But when I was watching it, I was like thinking 'you are so close to it yet you miss it completely!'.
Of course, when it comes to the mambo jumbo part of it, like one with the universe, etc, we have to tread carefully. Taiji, btw, is out, at least for me. Well, at least until I have a better understanding of it.
I have absolutely no problem with the herbology part of TCM. God gave herbs for healing and the Chinese have harvested the knowledge of the use of it. To me, that's just plain and simple.
This is just purely my opinion though.
Thanks babe for the lovely comment and sharing.
ReplyDeleteWell, I am not saying TCM is ALL bad, but I certainly believe we are in this world but NOT of this world.
Whilst medical science has definitely helped people, it has also become a stumbling block to many Christians.
I know of so many Christians who love to confess negatively over themselves by blaming it on genes and old age...
IMHO U never saw the Disciples go around treating the sick like doctors but in faith that BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED. =)
So my stand as a Christian is this - whilst there is no wrong in eating well and consuming a balanced diet, if we subscribe to these "rules and regulations" of healthy living, we are also subject to them.
I believe that as He is in this world, so am I... that Jesus is my health, my creativity, my everything.
Maybe before I knew Christ, my worldly genes would have a hold over my health. BUT now that I am IN Christ, my genes are those of my LORD and Saviour.
Sometimes a little knowledge is a good thing, but too much makes us struggle between what we see (the natural facts, the world) and what we know is the truth ( the Promises of God and the supernatural in Christ). =)
Of course, of course, this is not about whether medicine is the truth or God's Word is the truth. There is no arguments about that. Eating well, taking care of yourself, is part of being a good steward of your body. But our faith lies in the finished work of Christ.
ReplyDeleteThe sharing is just on the subject of TCM, not whether it should be where we place our faith. Obviously not, right?
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ReplyDeleteAmen. =)
ReplyDeleteI know where you are coming from. No worries. I know that you were just sharing about TCM and I enjoyed reading every bit of it.
My reply was also just me sharing my views =D So not attacking your comment or faith or anything hehe. Dun take offence k?
I guess I have become wary of TCM and medical science.
As I have said before, too many people are caught up in these knowledge, and they are all that they can believe in with regards to Health and healing.
I have seen so many of them - family and friends who are very staunch Christians but would choose the doctor over the Word. I know Christians who do not know what - by His stripes we are healed- means! Someone dear to us has an extensive knowledge of Medical science but that has impaired his understanding of God's saving grace and desire to give us Health and wholeness in Christ. He believes the word of the medical dictionaries and health books, but struggles to agree with the Word, reading each line with skepticism despite being a Christian for more than 12 times the duration I have been one.
Trust me when I say I used to know TCM pretty well (thanks to my mum's soups/concoctions and my tutor who was a sinseh) and I even studied a bit of Wu Xing Xue (which is a TCM study - that thing I couldn't recall the name of in my blog post)before and applied it using vitamins and minerals in the stead of Chinese herbs.
I agree with U that medicinal knowledge has been perverted by the Devil, something that happens across the board with anything that is of this world.
BUT I also feel that God means for us to be in health, and that health is a gift from Him. It was given to us in Christ - through His broken body.
That we fall ill or allow ourselves to fall even sicker ( by this I refer to the gift of free will we have to speak negative confessions over ourselves) has sometimes roots in the lies that we believe in because of the worldly knowledge thrown at us by doctors and scientists.
I am not saying dun see a doctor, I am sure God can use doctors to heal us, but I think it is important that, as believers, we learn how to discern Truth over fact, to let go of trusting in the world's knowledge over trusting in God.
That we dun subscribe to such knowledge so much so that we stumble those who have yet to know of Christ or who know Him little.
Being healed because of medication is good, but being healed because of His broken body brings even more glory to His name! Amen?
I just feel that altho' TCM has good medical facts, instead of complaining "I feel heaty. Better avoid eating heaty stuff," I would rather just confess good over myself - "I might feel heaty but I know that I am actually not. And I thank God I am in good health because Christ is in me. Amen."
Of course, I am still learning how to control my tongue. BUT I can assure you even tho I sleep a few hours a night, and sometimes feel heaty... I still eat my 2 durians, drink my Milo-peng, eat my chocolates and still not fall ill! All God's grace I msut say! In the past, two durian seeds in that condition would have finished me.
In fact, I have not fallen ill in a long while. The only time being in Korea - devil trying to rob the joy of the honeymoon there. Lol. But I healed very very fast - definitely God turning the illness around for me there! =) Keke.
So I am beginning to see how the rules of this world are losing their grip on me as I lean desperately on Jesus. =)
I am learning to confess His truth over my family and myself and to apply God's grace in the anointing oil, bread and new wine over us, instead of running to the Sinseh to buy herbs the moment we feel a little unwell.
We know from the Word of God that the power is in the tongue, not in the ginseng roots or the liang teh or the pig's brain soup. Lol.
I feel for TCM, the reason why the heaty cooling rules apply over us is because we subscribe to it. We somehow have a belief in it - stemming from years of listening to our elders impart their basic knoweldge of TCM to us.
I feel that if we are able to believe in the power of Christ's finished work on the cross over the worldly rules of "ka zhua, ka liang" (too much yang, to much ying), these so called "helpful rules" will cease to affect us.
My honest opinion lah... so i feel that the so-called baby is not really a baby that we should grow affections for.
I am throwing, in the case of TCM, the baby and the bathwater in favour of the Fresh Oil, the Fine Flour and the New Wine =)
The only baby I believe in is the baby that was born in the manger whom the magis visted with gold, frankincense and myrrh. =D
Other "babies" - I am not interested. Grins cheekily!
I know what you mean. : ) It is also a fresh perspective to me about not subscribing to it => not affected by it.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest, health and healing is my weakness but it shall not be in Jesus' name. : P I used to be - I don't know what you call it - it is not hypochondriac, right? That one is when you keep thinking that you are sick and actually enjoy it of some sort, right? For me, I had oppressive fears of sickness. Notice I said 'had'. That is because since I came to NCC, I have been slowly delivered from it and these days, I don't suffer the 'attacks' so much anymore. In the past, the oppression could be so bad I could not function normally.
One day, I will not just be totally delivered from this but this area will become my strongest point! Amen!
But what you said is true. Many people put their trust in doctors, medicines and diets. I see many of my friends doing so. Some very obsessively too, going into all sorts of mainstream and alternative therapies, believing in all kinds of weird notions. The more they believe in all the bad things, the more it comes true in their lives. But they give thanks to God for those 'remedies' that 'helped' them. That is their faith level. Like Ps said, if that is what they can believe, we can agree in prayer that God will use these means to heal them. It is ultimately God who heals. Doctors can treat. Doctors cannot heal. No doctor worth his grain of salt will claim that he heals patients. That's why I am surprised when you mention about doctors who cannot accept that God heals. If they are not christians, then they should realise that it's the 'body' that heals or some higher force or something.
I am also slowly learning about the power of our words (ref : charlse capp). I mean I know about it. But the actual impact of our words, I don't think at this point I can say that I fully appreciate it yet.
Btw, if you go to my blog, you will hardly see much sharing in such a manner because that blog is really my daily mommy blog. : P You see all my 'natural glory' if there is even such a thing.
AMEN!
ReplyDeletePerfect love casts off all fears - even those of illnes. When we know and see God's perfect love and promies in His Word, we have confidence that rids us of our paranoias and anxieties. =D
The dear one with extensive knowledge of Medical science is not a doctor. LOL. But he can point it out to the doctors when they get his medication fatally wrong... the docs will check then realise oh ya he is right, and they always ask if he is a doctor after that. He was a teacher in a primary school. =)
I think he is the only one that you might have mistook as a doc too? =) The rest are regular joes and janes like us who prefer the doc's word over God's Word. =D
I agree that even if you hadn't known about God, you'd figure out there is a higher being. Even Einstein concluded there must be a God. I think he was a Jew as well.
BUT there are Christian Scientists who still err on the side of science not faith. Charles Darwin is a good example. He grew up an Anglican but refuted Genesis with his theory of evolution.
Knowledge of the worldly kind stumbles and stumbles bad. Hence we are reminded to have childlike faith - the sort of faith that doesn't try to "geh kiang" ( try to act smart or a know-it-all). The sort of faith that doesn't mix law and grace.
You will be delivered from your stronghold for sure! I have my strongholds too and I pray I will be delivered as well. AMEN! =D
(FYI today's new creation daily devotional is so relevant to our sharings today with each other)
Oh ya BTW, I think the Uni module that taught you that there was no God before Taoism appeared, was basically salah leh. =) Lol.
ReplyDeleteAccording to Sima Qian, a religious historian of the 1st century BC, Laozi "cultivated the Tao and its virtue." After his retirement from the government, he wrote the The Classic of the Way [Tao] and its Power (Daode jing.
Between Laozi's time and the Tang Dynasty (618-906 AD), Taoism evolved from a simple philosophy into a highly structured religion with temples, priests, monks, holy sites, a pantheon of deities and more than 1,500 sacred texts.
In comparison, oracle bone inscriptions and artifcats from archaeological excavations haev traced the Shang Dynasty (c. 1765- c 1122BC), to the period of Emperor Wu Ding (c. 1352 BC), which is contemporaneous with the period of biblical history when Joshua led the nationa of Israel. These findings also showed that the Shang Dynasty had a well-developed religion even at the very beginning of their history.
In fact, the Xian Altar of Heaven is the oldest altar to Shang Di of its kind found in China to date. It was reburied shortly after its excavation - according to an article in 2000
(article seen at this website -http://www.archaeology.org/0003/newsbriefs/altar.html... extract below)
The oldest-known altar used in Chinese state religious practice was unearthed, then reburied, this past summer in the city of Xian by the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences. Uncontrolled development around a mysterious circular mound prompted a 30-day salvage excavation. Constructed as early as the Sui Dynasty (A.D. 581-618), the so-called Altar of Heaven is more than 1,000 years older than a similar altar in Beijing, and is the only one found so far pre-dating the Qing Dynasty (A.D. 1644-1912). It is estimated that 17 Chinese emperors conducted religious rites here.
Chinese state religion, whose origins stretch back to the Han Dynasty (206 B.C.-A.D. 220) and perhaps as early as the Western Zhou Dynasty (1050-771 B.C.), involved the worship of heaven only by emperors, who were perceived as links between the earthly and celestial realms. Emperors mounted the steps of the Altar of Heaven barefoot, accompanied by an orchestra playing religious hymns, to prostrate themselves before celestial deities. Their effectiveness as emperors depended on the proper performance of ritual; otherwise they might be blamed for a bad harvest or other misfortunes. ( - does this not sound like the High Priests and the offerings they make for the Jews??)
Sadly the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences team was forced to rebury the Xian altar only weeks after its discovery owing to a lack of funds for a public display. "We hope the altar will one day be open to the public," An told The Times of London. "It is a shame but money is a real problem."
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ReplyDeleteAlso read this somewhere -
ReplyDeleteHeaven worship is a Chinese religious belief that predates Taoism and Confucianism, but was later eventually incorporated into both Taoism and Confucianism.
Ancient Chinese believed in a non-corporeal entity called Shangdi, an omnipotent, just, monotheistic and supreme being. Over time, Shangdi became synonymous with Tian, or Heaven. Worship of Heaven is highly ritualistic and the emperor has to hold official sacrifices and worship at an altar of heaven, the most famous of which is the Temple of Heaven in Beijing. There are no idols allowed in Heaven worship.
Early Abrahamic missionaries saw similarities between Shangdi/Tian and the Abrahamic God, and therefore translated their God into "Shangdi" in Chinese. Some Chinese Christian scholars assert that the Christian God and Chinese Shangdi are in fact the same entity
===========
To look further into Shang Di as well as the Chinese language, you can read -
* "Faith of our fathers"
* "Genesis and the mystery Confucious couldn't solve"
* "The Discovery of Genesis - how the truth of Genesis were found hidden in the Chinese language".
I also used the Chinese dictionary to help me further understand and break down the words, as well as http://zhongwen.com which is featured on the links on my blog.
I will blog more and share the knowledge gleaned from these books as well as from breaking down mandarin words into their raw elements to uncover their true meaning.
I feel like Indiana Geri =D
HI Geri,
ReplyDeleteAh, I think when they said no God, I think they refer to no organised religion and a concept of an idol god (shen). During the Chunqiu/Zhanguo era, philosophies was the main schools of thoughts. There was ancestral worship, for instance. Also some kind of ritualistic worship of heavens, earth for bountiful harvest and also to legitimise the ruler of the day as Son of Heaven. Worship as such was restricted to a small group of people. The commoners probably had their own superstition.
Later on, Buddhism came through the silk road, propered during the Tang Dynasty and it was an attractive religion to the people due to the hardship they were going through. The concept of Kharma gave them some kind of explanation for the mystery of life. This was widely adopted by the common people which then posed a threat to the ruling class. Taoism was kind of like a 'nationalistic' movement to counter balance the 'foreign' influence of buddhism. Yes, it incorporates the teaching to Lao Tze and later on, a whole bunch of mambo jumbo.
As for the books you mentioned, have read them years ago and later on, gave the books all away! LOL! I had my reservations although just a little. E.g. deciphering the Chinese characters, I need to also check back on the origins of each word.
I am just a naturally skeptical person at times. The Chinese module that I did also had a small segment on stuff like wuxing ba gua, and how chinese fortune-tell based on your name. YOu know, count strokes? Well, I asked the lecturer until he had no answer. First of all, it depends on the character. However, it depends on what form you are referring to. The complicated form? The simplied form? If you say simplified form, then isn't it more 'accurate' to use the more traditional 'complicated' form? But if tradition means more accurate, then you must go all the way back to the jia gu wen, isn't it? Different form, different number of strokes, leh.
Then the other part also depends on the pronunciation, how the word sounds. My question then became, how can this be accurate? The same word calculated in another province would sound completely different. Just think of how cantonese pronounce certain words vs mandarin.
No answer. (-_-) Hence, I conclude ; all mambo jumbo.
Back to biblical view of Chinese character.
For instance, your analysis of the word gai. The old form is not Yang on top. So interpretation end up will be different based on the form of word you use. Taiwanese will not agree with you. : P Then you end up have to look at how the word transformed over the ages, how the current simplied form came about (the rationale for simplifying a certain way). Some words, the traditional form has meaning. But after simplification, loses the meaning. If you based your analysis on the simplified form, then it becomes meaningless because it wasn't the way it should be originally.
Of course, one can also use a cover-all argument that even the simplification process was divinely inspired to reflect the gospel. But I feel that everything must have a valid basis, otherwise, it cannot stand. Especially so if you are arguing that ancient Chinese worshipped the same God; you have to take the historical perspective too.
Well, not that I am any expert at such things.
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ReplyDeleteLet's go see the ancient word for gai... instead of jian ti =)
ReplyDelete蓋 - gai
Formed by the element of creation on the top or 艸 this is further split into 2 屮 (che) which is sprouting plant.
Below it is 去 - which in pictograph form is made of the element of a standing person 大 (altered to look like clay 土) - Early pictograph of 大, as mentioned in blog, showed a man with an enlarged head - this is representative of the God head. Under it is the element of (/) which means sacrificial blood or breath of life set in motion.
Under that is the Chinese word for vessel (皿) or vessel containing sacrificial blood (血).
Put together what do you see?
Phew the first one is a long story ah ...lol
There is a pattern of 2 -
Before the Garden of Eden was created, there was Eden. Eden was ruled by the angels with Lucifer leading the pack. Then Lucifer grew an ego and was thrown down from Heaven with its minions. God then created Earth and the Garden of Eden. (It is important to note for yourself that Eden and Garden of Eden are 2 different places. I promise to touch on that in the next post.)
God created Adam but Adam fell. So God raised a second Adam in the form of Christ.
We are waiting for the second coming of Christ - the first coming was to redeem us, the second coming is to establish His Kingdom on Earth.
The cao zi tou or the element of 艸 represents 2 sprouts.
Personally, for me, I see within these 2 sprouts that there is a creation and a new creation; there was the fall of man and redemption; there was the coming of Christ to die on the cross for our sins to redeem us, and there is the second coming where we will all reign in glory with the Most High as He establishes His Kingdom on Earth.
This is what I felt when I read it. To each his/her own.
In the element of 去, why did 大 became 土? Because God (大) came to Earth ( 土) and was made man. Jesus came to be the ultimate sacrifice - to shed His blood that we might be made righteous. To breathe life over us.
So new or old, gai speaks of God's salvation plan in Jesus Christ for us. Interesting eh? =)
I am sorry that I still do not agree with your opinion that there was not a worship of a single deity or organized religion before Taoism. I have shown sufficient evidence from scholars, archaeology and other resources.
ReplyDeleteI will show more evidence in my later blog posts. I will quote from the original religious texts of Shang Di.
Like I said one to Ian, 2 people can read the same thing but see different things - because we operate, as you said before, under different levels of faith.
I can tell our FIL that the Holy Spirit is represented by oil, water and fire in the bible, but he doesn't see it nor agree with that. To me it is as clear and obvious as day... but to him it takes a lot more effort because he was taught to read the bible literally and not to interpret symbols and types.
Sometimes as I have said before, worldy knowledge can stumble us. Unless we are prepared to accept that what we have learned in school might not always be true in the light of the Word of God, we will stumble.
School teaches Darwin's evolution of Man... I am sure Uni doesn't agree with the Creation of the Genesis or teach it as the REAL deal.
Do you choose to believe the school or not?
So is everything the University teaches its student true or what they deem to be true?
Just a thought.
About the FIL issue with bibles types and symbols, it was very hard to explain the anointing oil to him. Very. I still think he is skeptical about it... but I know the same Holy Spirit that is in me, is in him & it is written in the Word of God that the Holy Spirit teaches us all things.
ReplyDeleteI have passed him Destined To Reign to read - hoping that we can discuss the book. He emailed me a week odd back that he feels that our Pastor's views are very biblical. =) Praise God. Because my FIL was skeptical of Pastor Prince, like I was in the beginning when my best gal friend told me about him. Lol.
LOL! Good for you! At least you tried. Hahahaha.....and you got me convinced as far as gai goes. *cannot stop laughing*
ReplyDeleteBut I hope you see what I mean earlier when I said I have some reservations. Unfortunately, authors of those books don't seem to systematically analyse words like you do to convince skeptics like me. :P
Actually, it matter not to me whether the words point to God or not. My faith is not based on that. Just that I feel that if we want to say such things, must make sure cover all grounds and not just anyhow say say, know what I mean?
Lol. =)
ReplyDeleteI understand about having reservations. I used to have ALOT of reservations. But I am inclined to give the benefit of doubt first, then I will research and dig and read up to see if the writer was true or false. =)
Indeed the books did not split the elements up as far as I did. I am more kaypoh and kiasu perhaps? Grins cheekily.
I agree our faith is not about whether the cheena words point to God or not. =) No way... but it is nice to see God's glory even in that area! =D
The reason why I decided to explore further was also because I felt led to do so and also because it fascinates me how Jesus can be seen in our Chinese language.
I have some relatives that are the typical superstitious cheena sort & these findings I hope will speak to their hearts. For eg, my mum and my very very dear aunt (who was into Sai Baba, then into Ganesh, then into both Ganesh and Buddha... and her good friends now are Mediums. Sighs.)
I really enjoyed Pastor Mark's sermons and I hope that I can pass them to my aunt to listen. She is in her late thirties or early 40s I think. I am concerned for her salvation, her husband and her kids' (primary 3 and 4 I think) salvation. They basically worship whatever my aunt worships.
Then there are the mango stall aunties in Suntec that I try to talk about Jesus too. =) This is good material to share with them and spark their interest. It opens the doors to sharing the gospel with them in a way. =D
Ah, as I said, not that I am an expert in Chinese. Also, I did not say you *should* use the traditional form, but rather, I was saying that analysis of Chinese characters should take into account its evolution through the various forms. : )
ReplyDeleteAs for revelations, it takes the Holy Spirit to reveal. One can quote chapter and verses, bring up scholars, research, papers, books, experts, rabbis, teachers, prophets, etc. But without the Holy Spirit, all these will not be able to convince another person. Many a times, before the Pastor(s) say something, I will also get the same revelation. Not that I am smart but it is the Holy Spirit. I am sure it happens to you too. Just in case you are getting a bit frustrated at my 'stubborn-ness' in refusing to acknowledge that the Chinese characters reveal God, I get revelations about those characters too. Hahahah.....don't be angry ok? I just want to make things 'water tight'. : P
Anyway, back to your FIL. We can only pray for the Holy Spirit to open his eyes. "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of HIm" (Eph 1: 17)
聊天 means "Talk about Heaven"? Haha..
ReplyDeleteLol dun worry PJ - i am not angry hehe. I am not so petty lah! =D
ReplyDeleteI actually enjoy delving deeper. Your questions and comments help more than they hurt. =) Another friend felt that these exchanges is exactly what the bible calls iron sharpening iron. Hehe. I agree with her!!!
I really thank you for taking time to really read and to really give solid comments that are food for thought, and deeper studying and praying and meditation on the Word of God. Praise Jesus!
I agree with you on how the Holy Spirit must be behind the revelations.
I know people who read the bible and can memorize verses and all that which I cannot. But they can quote and quote but I just feel either hollow inside or uneasy because they quote out of context, away from grace and into legalism. These people studied in Bible Colleges and all, but something doesn't click with my inner man.
So ya I know what you mean. =)
Honestly, I am a better writer than an orater haha. I am an excitable person and I just go all over the place when I talk. I am able to focus better when I write. So I can never out-argue people when I talk...
AMEN with regards to prayer for my FIL - he is an amazingly well read man and I am sure once the revelation is opened to him, he can share so much more! =D
Cyberanger - ha ha Ya Liao Tian seems to mean "Talk about God" to me now haha - what we are doing here hor? =D
Dear Sister,
ReplyDeleteIroning sharpening iron indeed! A lot of the points I brought up are also things that I wanted to find out myself. It is not that I don't agree with the general principle of the matter but there are things I want to clear up (and had no time for the research). Thank God for you, who goes into all the study and find out some of the answers! : )
One of these days, you may even write your own book and it will be a better researched book, with greater credibility than what are already in the market!
Also, all these exchanges have re-ignited my interest in this whole Chinese business. Maybe I wil l dig up some of my parents' old books - they are very cheena one. : P
P.S. I, on the other hand, am better at verbalising than writing things down. Hahaha...
Haha - good what. I always feel a bit scared to shoot from the hips when I am asked to talk about stuff. I feel awkward. I was quite the wallflower sort in school... =)
ReplyDeleteVery cool about the cheena books. =) I have no cheena books to dig up on (except for my dictionary haha) and I don't have the same resources as you have access to =D. It will be cool to see what you discover in your course of quiet time and study!!
I would like to do some writing for Christian literature some day God willing. =) I will see where He leads me. Amen. =D