An Exchange of reflections regarding Phil 2:12-13 blog entry
My dear bro-in-Christ and I had a very interesting bible study through Facebook on the blog entry I wrote about Phil 2:12-13 a few posts earlier.
I've put it here because there were some interesting points made that I think you will very much enjoy reading... =)
Jenn Hui wrote
at 9:07am
Very apt. So in Phil 2: 12-13 means the unmerited favour of God can be evident in those who delight themselves in living a committed Christian. I've been reading John piper recenlty. This sharing reminds me about the concept of unmerited and conditional Grace.
This is an part from John Piper's book:
"I have found that some popular notions of grace are so skewed and so pervasive that certain biblical teachings are most impossible to communicate. For exampple, the biblical concempt of unmerited, conditional grace is nearly unintelligible to many contemporary Christians who assume that unconditionality is the essensecof all grace
To be sure, there is unconditional grace. And it is the glorious foundation of all else in the Christian life. But there is also conditional grace. For most people who breathe the popular air of grace and compassion today, conditional grace sounds like an oxymoron - like heavy feathers. So for example, when people hear the promise of James 4:6, that God "gives grace to the humble," many have a hard time thinking about a grace that is conditional upon humility. Or, if they hear the precious promise that "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28 KJV), they scarcely allow themselves to ponder that this promise of Grace is conditional upon our being called and our loving God."
John Piper, excerpt from "The Purifying power of living by faith in Future Grace"
It's a glorious book that speaks about Grace, not just a by-gone grace (when atonement was made in Jesus), but also in "future grace" for the things that are promised to us who are in Christ.
Geraldine Tan wrote
at 12:46am
I guess I have a differing view =) But shalom regardless =D
Scripture confirms scripture, so I will answer your post as such... =)
(Just to share... not attacking, or whatever)
Ephesians 2:8-9 says -
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." --
Thus, we see that Grace = A Gift From the LORD Most High
The definition of "gift" is as follows -
* Something given voluntarily without payment in return
* Something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned
Also, do note that "Gift" here is "doron" in Greek... it is a gift, offering, a sacrifice.
Jesus paid for this gift on the cross (ie the greatest sacrifice), and it is unmerited, unearned favour - to tag on conditions on it, I feel deviates from what He intended for us.
Also 1 Peter 3:18 clearly states "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God" . The sacrifice to offer us this gift was paid ONCE and FOR ALL.
See now, James 4:6 - But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
"Humble" in Greek for this passage is "Tapeinos".
(Note - I believe one cannot read the bible in its mere English translation as much value is lost in the act of translating.)
What Tapeinos means is not humble as in being pride-less, but humble here in its original Greek refers to the cast down, the lowly, the depressed, the humiliated.
In short, James is agreeing with what Paul said in Romans 5:20 - where sin abounds, grace super abounds.
Also, the English says that "more grace" is given, in the orig Greek it actually is "the greatest grace" is given.
And "gives" or "giveth" in the same quotation by James is didomi in Greek. It means to bestow, to grant. Bestow also means (like doron in the Ephesians quotation) to present as a gift.
ROM 8:28
As for Romans 8:28 (all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose ) it is clear there, as it is throughout the Word of God, that grace comes from our accepting Jesus's gift of redemption. Those who welcome God, welcome the Son.
As for "to his purpose" in this quotation, in Greek we see it is "prothesis" which means both purpse and showbread.
Jesus is the showbread - the "Bread of the Presence" or lechem (hap)pānīm in Hebrew.
So those who are called according to His purpose - are those who are called into His Son. =)
In short,
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." - Galatians 2:21
Nullify here in Greek is "athetho" which means frustrate, bring to nought.
Paul is telling us not to frustrate or bring to nought Christ's work on the cross (the grace of God) by thinking that righteousness comes through keeping principles or the law - because if it did, then Christ would have died without a cause.
So - is Grace subject to conditions?
I feel it is not... grace if FREELY GIVEN to us... but it is NOT cheap grace.
Paul reminds us clearly in Galatians 2:17-18 not take the gift of grace for granted...
"But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! [God forbid!] For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor."
Now that we are new wine, we can no longer fit in old wineskins. We can no longer steep ourselves in our old man - our old ways of thinking and doing and living in sin.
It is precisely knowing how precious this freely given gift is, that we come to see how much God loves us. And we love Him because He first loved us.
To show Him that love - we live our life anew.
So a person who thinks that having grace is licence to sin and sin again , never knew truly what Grace means.
But we should never say that to deter such a thing from happening, grace must have conditions attached to it.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." -- Romans 3:22-24
God bless,
Geri
Jenn Hui wrote
at 1:37am
Your study of the word serve u and ur readers well. I am very impressed and am greatly blessed because I really desire to have bible-study where the word is expound and studied word by word. Wowee!!! I am learning more about Grace here than in my church which bears that name (what a shame!).
Thanks for great bible study!
And please, if my interpretation (or any writer's) is wrong, don't be ashame to defend what u strongly believe is the correct understanding of the verse. ANd don't apologise as if u're spreading a disease because the truth of the Word must be defended. To defend and also attack with the sword of the spirit. Standing up for truth should never be an apologetic thing, but the manner in which we do it matters. The way I see it, ur defence of the Word is strong. I stand corrected and greatly blessed and humbled!
Attack the error and stand up for the Truth! Yeah!
Geraldine Tan wrote
at 2:22am
Hugs bro. =)
Thanks for the edifying comment. I am glad that we have all been blessed today by this discussion =D If not for your discussion, I would not have made some in-depth study into the quotes. I learned just as you have -and it is all because of the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Praise God! =D No coincidence in Jesus always. He must have wanted us to know His love for us is that great - greater than what we imagine it to be! =)
Amen about standing up for the Truth! May we always fear not in His perfect love to reveal His grace and loveliness to the world. =)
Side note -
Oops notice typo haha
"... GRACE IS (not if... lol) FREELY GIVEN to us... but it is NOT cheap grace." =D
I've put it here because there were some interesting points made that I think you will very much enjoy reading... =)
Jenn Hui wrote
at 9:07am
Very apt. So in Phil 2: 12-13 means the unmerited favour of God can be evident in those who delight themselves in living a committed Christian. I've been reading John piper recenlty. This sharing reminds me about the concept of unmerited and conditional Grace.
This is an part from John Piper's book:
"I have found that some popular notions of grace are so skewed and so pervasive that certain biblical teachings are most impossible to communicate. For exampple, the biblical concempt of unmerited, conditional grace is nearly unintelligible to many contemporary Christians who assume that unconditionality is the essensecof all grace
To be sure, there is unconditional grace. And it is the glorious foundation of all else in the Christian life. But there is also conditional grace. For most people who breathe the popular air of grace and compassion today, conditional grace sounds like an oxymoron - like heavy feathers. So for example, when people hear the promise of James 4:6, that God "gives grace to the humble," many have a hard time thinking about a grace that is conditional upon humility. Or, if they hear the precious promise that "all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28 KJV), they scarcely allow themselves to ponder that this promise of Grace is conditional upon our being called and our loving God."
John Piper, excerpt from "The Purifying power of living by faith in Future Grace"
It's a glorious book that speaks about Grace, not just a by-gone grace (when atonement was made in Jesus), but also in "future grace" for the things that are promised to us who are in Christ.
Geraldine Tan wrote
at 12:46am
I guess I have a differing view =) But shalom regardless =D
Scripture confirms scripture, so I will answer your post as such... =)
(Just to share... not attacking, or whatever)
Ephesians 2:8-9 says -
"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast." --
Thus, we see that Grace = A Gift From the LORD Most High
The definition of "gift" is as follows -
* Something given voluntarily without payment in return
* Something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned
Also, do note that "Gift" here is "doron" in Greek... it is a gift, offering, a sacrifice.
Jesus paid for this gift on the cross (ie the greatest sacrifice), and it is unmerited, unearned favour - to tag on conditions on it, I feel deviates from what He intended for us.
Also 1 Peter 3:18 clearly states "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God" . The sacrifice to offer us this gift was paid ONCE and FOR ALL.
See now, James 4:6 - But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE."
"Humble" in Greek for this passage is "Tapeinos".
(Note - I believe one cannot read the bible in its mere English translation as much value is lost in the act of translating.)
What Tapeinos means is not humble as in being pride-less, but humble here in its original Greek refers to the cast down, the lowly, the depressed, the humiliated.
In short, James is agreeing with what Paul said in Romans 5:20 - where sin abounds, grace super abounds.
Also, the English says that "more grace" is given, in the orig Greek it actually is "the greatest grace" is given.
And "gives" or "giveth" in the same quotation by James is didomi in Greek. It means to bestow, to grant. Bestow also means (like doron in the Ephesians quotation) to present as a gift.
ROM 8:28
As for Romans 8:28 (all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose ) it is clear there, as it is throughout the Word of God, that grace comes from our accepting Jesus's gift of redemption. Those who welcome God, welcome the Son.
As for "to his purpose" in this quotation, in Greek we see it is "prothesis" which means both purpse and showbread.
Jesus is the showbread - the "Bread of the Presence" or lechem (hap)pānīm in Hebrew.
So those who are called according to His purpose - are those who are called into His Son. =)
In short,
" I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." - Galatians 2:21
Nullify here in Greek is "athetho" which means frustrate, bring to nought.
Paul is telling us not to frustrate or bring to nought Christ's work on the cross (the grace of God) by thinking that righteousness comes through keeping principles or the law - because if it did, then Christ would have died without a cause.
So - is Grace subject to conditions?
I feel it is not... grace if FREELY GIVEN to us... but it is NOT cheap grace.
Paul reminds us clearly in Galatians 2:17-18 not take the gift of grace for granted...
"But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! [God forbid!] For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor."
Now that we are new wine, we can no longer fit in old wineskins. We can no longer steep ourselves in our old man - our old ways of thinking and doing and living in sin.
It is precisely knowing how precious this freely given gift is, that we come to see how much God loves us. And we love Him because He first loved us.
To show Him that love - we live our life anew.
So a person who thinks that having grace is licence to sin and sin again , never knew truly what Grace means.
But we should never say that to deter such a thing from happening, grace must have conditions attached to it.
This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." -- Romans 3:22-24
God bless,
Geri
Jenn Hui wrote
at 1:37am
Your study of the word serve u and ur readers well. I am very impressed and am greatly blessed because I really desire to have bible-study where the word is expound and studied word by word. Wowee!!! I am learning more about Grace here than in my church which bears that name (what a shame!).
Thanks for great bible study!
And please, if my interpretation (or any writer's) is wrong, don't be ashame to defend what u strongly believe is the correct understanding of the verse. ANd don't apologise as if u're spreading a disease because the truth of the Word must be defended. To defend and also attack with the sword of the spirit. Standing up for truth should never be an apologetic thing, but the manner in which we do it matters. The way I see it, ur defence of the Word is strong. I stand corrected and greatly blessed and humbled!
Attack the error and stand up for the Truth! Yeah!
Geraldine Tan wrote
at 2:22am
Hugs bro. =)
Thanks for the edifying comment. I am glad that we have all been blessed today by this discussion =D If not for your discussion, I would not have made some in-depth study into the quotes. I learned just as you have -and it is all because of the revelation of the Holy Spirit. Praise God! =D No coincidence in Jesus always. He must have wanted us to know His love for us is that great - greater than what we imagine it to be! =)
Amen about standing up for the Truth! May we always fear not in His perfect love to reveal His grace and loveliness to the world. =)
Side note -
Oops notice typo haha
"... GRACE IS (not if... lol) FREELY GIVEN to us... but it is NOT cheap grace." =D
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